The Hegelian Bengali is called Naimul Haq. He is a retired electrician. I first reacted on his comment before verifying earlier parts of what he had said. Dear fellow Christians, be prepared for some stupid comments in the New Agey way before I get into the debate! But I think it is instructive for my readers to know how Orientals and likeminded (second speaker is in fact an Occidental Buddhist, unless you call Oz "Extremest Orient") reason when among each other. They are not debating, they are flattering each other. Or these on this sample are.
- Naimul Haq
- Jesus was a disciple of a Buddhist monk, and learned the Buddhist mind set called Bodhiswatta, and taught "love thy enemy" or "do unto others as you expect others to do unto others" and other Buddhist dogmas, granting people liberty, human rights, ahimsa etc that impressed the people of the whole world, who voluntarily accepted Bodhiswatta.
- I'mtheway Soareyou
- I think maybe your right, there is a lot that points to very similar teachings. one that I love that Christians just don't want to see, is if your eye be single your body will fill with light. there is no way a Christian can understand this unless you look at Hindu and Buddhist teaching. and a very big misunderstanding is the concept of hell. Buddha said it was a state of being from desire, and Christians think its a place we go to for punishment! wow now that is a very big stuff up! I was a Christian for a very long time. but didn't understand a thing until I started looking at Hinduism and Buddhism. in my mind this is the roots of Jesus teaching :0)
- Naimul Haq
- +I'mtheway Soareyou
You are absolutely right. Buddha institutionalized non-violence,rule of law,human rights, animal rights, liberty, freedom etc. that captivated the minds of the people all over the world, and impressed Christ, encouraged Mohammad as the first head of state to sign the Madina Code (declaration of human rights for all minorities (mainly Jews and Christians,some of whom were killed previously while revolting).
The Magna Carta that ushered in a new quantum leap for mankind, was drawn up in the same spirit of the Buddhist mind set called Bodhiswatta.
The power of Buddhism was quickly realized by the Persi-Babylon alliance that conspired to suppress both Krishna's Sanatan Dharma and Buddhism in one stroke. They supported the Kuru, who introduced Hinduism, by making the Jadu people kill Krishna, and smash the might of the Yadav (H.H.Wilson, The Vishnu Purana).
[He is extremely probably overdoing humanity of Medina code, and very definitely getting Magna Carta wrong, both as to its roots and as to its consequences. It is not from Buddhism Boddhisattwa ethics, it did not establish the rule of law - Constantine did that much earlier, followed by Justinian - and it was not a quantum leap for mankind or even for England.]
- I'mtheway Soareyou
- +Naimul Haq try telling a Christian that lol thanks :0)
- Naimul Haq
- +I'mtheway Soareyou
Even Muslims and Hindus too. What does it take to appreciate what is good for evolution of mankind.
[The Aussie is tired of Christian countrymen, Naimul has to tell him he's idealising Orientals.]
- I'mtheway Soareyou
- +Naimul Haq that is the ten thousand dollar question! I have been thinking about it, and to tell the truth I don't know lol. now that the world has become a lot smaller thanks to things like the Net. information about history and every religion you can think of, there are a lot more people waking up to a new perspective of truth an life. and as the governments of the world increase there hold on the rest of us, I think it will take something big that will trigger a desperate need for a major change in how we see ourselves and the universe. I think that as man is more oppressed the more the spirit within us must brake free? but to tell the truth, that is a very tuff question! lol
- Naimul Haq
- +I'mtheway Soareyou
You are so right,"it will take something big ... for a major change in how we see ourselves".
By 2035 vegetable production will half and population will double,unless we can do something about it, it will blow into our face, and if we can learn anything from history,evolution plays a remorseless role in helping the strong to eliminate the weak, to achieve equilibrium.
Evolution is driven by a program, not very well understood, but enough to observe how this program decides everything we do,and how we behave. Even the Buddhist mind set that once achieved equilibrium,is what evolution had in store for us.Similarly the present cultural war between the various religions, will produce a mind set that will achieve equilibrium.
- I'mtheway Soareyou
- +Naimul Haq yes that's very true. maybe that is why we are seeing this outbreak of Ebola? there are many powerful people that think thinning out the populations is a good thing!
now that the world is much more connected, someone like a Krishna , Buddha or a Christ would have a much bigger impacted on the world? and most religions think that there is one more round of god like people to go? I don't know what I think about that, maybe its me? LOL! so are you Buddhist? where are you from??
[God preserve me from being "god like people"!]
- Naimul Haq
- +I'mtheway Soareyou
I am a retired electrical engineer from Bangladesh, and not quite a Buddhist, but I believe in a similar mind set suitable for the modern age we live in.
For example the system of education fall far short of what we need to prepare ourselves to live in a world of competition, conflict,conspiracies etc.,and the pitfalls we face like drugs, sex, religious and political indoctrinations etc.
In particular I think all students be given proper training in "meditation", that helps open a third eye that enables you to get a deeper insight of reality, besides the all important quality of "self-control" we desperately need.
Newton once gave a graphic description of meditation (which he used to do a lot) that gave him a flow of ideas that is incessant,enabling him to work njava-script for 18 hours a day-!!!
My favorite is a self taught mathematician named Ramanujan, who died of tuberculosis at the age of 33, and gave us 4000 theorems that has proved valuable in many modern problems he never could imagine. He was trained in Vaishnav Yoga-!!!
[I would like to know how many of his theorems were really unknown to Western Mathematicians, might ask Numberphile about that. Btw, further up in this comment he tells us he's a Bengali who is a retired elecrical engineer. The blasphemy was obvioulsy not here but in his first comment.]
- I'mtheway Soareyou
- +Naimul Haq ok cool im in Australia, the first country to legalise mass surveillance : (
I was once a Christian, but now I would say I am a student of all religions an spiritual perspectives. I'm trying to find some kind of practical truth that is not just ideology or dogma. and you have hit the nail on the head! MEDITATION is the key i think. it seems to be the fundamental in all of it. even science is showing what has been said for thousands of years. it seems to be an amazing practical proses of overcoming self and opening the gates to the kingdom of God within! I am very exited about this practical path, I think maybe it is the true path. but to tell the truth, I am very new to this, and I have a lot to learn. I would like to have a look at Vaishnav Yoga! sound good.
[Here we found out he was an Aussie.]
- Naimul Haq
- +I'mtheway Soareyou
I partly know of one "practical truth", that even lead to a kind of spirituality,explaining a kind of relationship between us and the program (often called Creator, Designer, God etc.) about which we know through observation and some level of verification. Hegel's dialectical idealism along with his laws of dialectics (unity of opposites) had not been properly investigated. He even conjectured that evolution is a dialectical process.
I find the big bang created dark matter and dark energy with opposite properties, created all the particles along with their anti-particles etc.From such opposites particle physicists are able to explain the evolution of black holes, stars and galaxies, where evolves elements, compounds, organic compounds,amino acids and on to life and intelligence. The complicated genome (program) that produced us is the same creator program,or if you have the courage you can call it the universal program, and we are directly linked to the program.
+I'mtheway Soareyou
Your realization that the universe is conscious and everything is intimately related, is not surprising. There is an orchid flower that will only tap its pollen on the back of a particular insect and not to any other. Insects and orchids are different evolutionary process, yet there must be a conscious designer/coordinator that seems omnipresent.
Keep meditating and you will find yourself vibrating with the universal program.
- I'mtheway Soareyou
- +Naimul Haq yes thank you:0) the big question for me right now, is what are we, and what is the true relationship? is there something special about us and the source???
- Naimul Haq
- +I'mtheway Soareyou
Sure, we are like a kind of a projection of the program. We compliment each other.
- I'mtheway Soareyou
-
+Naimul Haq its true we do compliment each other. but in the western world we are very separated from each other. the only thing that brings us together is a disaster like floods and cyclones, then we go back to our tiny worlds. even Christians that claim to be the body of Christ are so divided, even with each other and hate and fear anyone that's not Christian or even from there same denomination. I suppose this is a big part of why we need a big change or evolution in mankind. Terence McKenna once said that we need a "archaic revival" and I tend to agree, maybe the old way of living was better ??
- Naimul Haq
- +I'mtheway Soareyou
I know the western society can be very introvert even among themselves. Germany, France, Britain can have relations that are really weird, like you said, only a disaster brings them together.
I am no expert, but I believe you shall have to work out a solution by yourself. This trend maybe part of the deal that propels your evolution,and in due time will be properly addressed.
Meditation is such an indispensable part of our being and save us from narrow mindedness, that few political leaders realize it.
- Marc Moise
- Jesus was and is not a disciple my friend. Jesus is God. The one and only God.
[But as man He made Himself a disciple in carpentry - and in the Torah, though there he showed Himself as master at age 12! But right, He was not a disciple of any Buddha or Boddhisattwa. At last a Christian man talking sense!]
- Naimul Haq
- +Marc Moise
What's The Trinity?
- I'mtheway Soareyou
- +Naimul Haq hi sorry, I've had a lot on. it is a hard one! maybe I will leave that for the next Buddha or whoever lol and yes your right Meditation is the way. first seek the kingdom within!
+Marc Moise God is everything including Jesus and you!
[Was so disgusted - if I saw it at all - I felt no want to even debate. I have refuted it elsewhere. By resuming the refutation of the ex-Hegelian CSLewis, on part of this blog post:
New blog on the kid : Sye Ten Bruggencate, C. S. Lewis, Aquinas, Existence of God
http://nov9blogg9.blogspot.com/2014/10/sye-ten-bruggencate-c-s-lewis-aquinas.html ]
- Hans-Georg Lundahl
- +Naimul Haq , as to your pretence that:
" Jesus was a disciple of a Buddhist monk, and learned the Buddhist mind set called Bodhiswatta, and taught "love thy enemy" or "do unto others as you expect others to do unto others" and other Buddhist dogmas, granting people liberty, human rights, ahimsa etc that impressed the people of the whole world, who voluntarily accepted Bodhiswatta."
What was the name of that Buddhist monk? When and where did they meet?
Where in the Gospels can I read of it?
- Naimul Haq
- +Hans-Georg Lundahl
I never read any Gospel, sorry. Sister Joseph Mary told me so(which I later found to be Buddhist dogmas) when I was a student,for 6 kindergarden years, in Holy Cross School, in Dhaka.
When I told this story to my friend Patrick. a devout Christian, he told me that one of Christ's disciples learned Boddhiswatta from a Buddhist monk, while I thought Jesus personally visited India. Whatever may be the case. Thank you.
[So much good it did him opening Holy Cross school in Dhaka to non-Catholic pupils ...]
- Dan Marino
- Jesus was a Bodhisattva. He was even predicted in the Rig Veda (even though this comment may be rejected by many Hindus.. you can't change the truth). There are two books that i suggest regarding Jesus 1) 'The Unknown life of Jesus Christ' - Nicholas Notovich 2) 'The Yoga of Jesus' - Swami Prmanahansa Yogananda.
- Hans-Georg Lundahl
- That Jesus was predicted by Rig Veda is very possible. Just as it is very probable that he was predicted by a Pagan sibyl.
Nicholas Notovich and Swami Prmanahansa Yogananda can safely be presumed to be wrong.
- Naimul Haq
- +Hans-Georg Lundahl
Love thy enemy, or, do unto others as tou expect others to do unto you, are Buddhist dogmas, accepted by Jesus as part of his preachings. This also indicates Jesus accepted the Buddhist mind set called Boddhiswatta, that was already accepted ny the whole of the civilized world.-!!!
[In Christianity it is rather "want" than "expect", btw]
- Hans-Georg Lundahl
- There is such a thing as the natural law and it has a certain set of perfections.
Jesus accepted all of them, He is, as God the Son, as Wisdom of the Father, the law in all of its perfection.
Boddhisattvas accepted part of it.
Not [alas for them] the part on hoping to get to Heaven and not the part about thanking God for creation.
- Dan Marino
- +Hans-Georg Lundahl
Their testimonies are based on ancient Buddhist manuscripts, not conjecture. Even the Vatican knows about this; however, it's to their interest to keeps things quiet and deny any mention of this fact.
- Naimul Haq
- +Dan Marino
The Buddhist mind set, of nonviolence, human rights, animal rights,rule of law, liberty, freedom etc., called Boddhiswatta, even adapted by Mohammad, who was the first head of state to sign the Medina Code,granting rights of the minorities Jews and Christians, some of whom were killed in a revolt.
In 1215, in the same spirit the British adapted Magna Carta and established the "rule of law", that changed the whole world.
Thanks to the Buddhist mind set-!!!
[He said so before ... it was moreover the English who had Magna Carta, not their British neighbours in the West!]
- Dan Marino
- +Naimul Haq
"God has no religion." ~ M Gandhi
[answering himself to continue:]
+Dan Marino "There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophies. My brain and my heart are my temples; my philosophy is kindness." ~ Dalai Lama
- Naimul Haq
- +Dan Marino
So very true, and amazingly so simple, yet many Indians fail to see what made them great, and what made the golden age of India, and of the whole world.
- Hans-Georg Lundahl
- +Dan Marino
"Their testimonies are based on ancient Buddhist manuscripts, not conjecture."
These ancient Buddhist manuscripts are if so lies. Lies by whoever wrote them earlier on - or by whoever invented them more recently.
"God has no religion" - According to your Mahatma who helped to end British rule over Pakistan. As well as in India.
Before British rule, Hindoos had Suttee and the strangler sect Thuggees. After British rule, Moslems are preparing to execute Asia Bibi.
Mohandas was also a friend of Nehru, who invaded Portugese India.
He was an admirer of the Tolstoy whom even Russian Schismatics had the good sense to excommunicate as the Heretic he was.
God made Himself man and followed the Mosaic religion in perfection. Not the Buddhist one, as "ancient Buddhist manuscripts" tell.
Dalai Lama is mistaken for a God.
His temple is his brain and his heart? His temple to the true God? Or to Buddha? Or to himself?
His philosophy is kindness?
God help the poor guys who take that as a complete philosophy!
- Naimul Haq
- +Hans-Georg Lundahl
Assuming ancient manuscripts and testimonies are lies,you prove yourself illiterate.
- Dan Marino
- +Hans-Georg Lundahl
The more you speak.. the more you make yourself look like a fool. Take your disdain elsewhere.
[These guys do not quite feel we Christians "complement them", do they?]
- Hans-Georg Lundahl
- No.
An Ancient manuscript or testimony from Oral tradition, as such, may be true or false.
I assume truth as long as I have no definite reason to assume falsehood.
Contradicting Holy Bible or Catholic Tradition or both is one such reason.
By adhering to Catholicism I do not prove myself illiterate, I prove myself a Catholic.
Same as with Krishna. I have no reason to say Arjuna did not exist or Krishna was not his friend and charioteer. I have very good reason to believe Krishna was not God, was not Lord, and Bhagavadgita is not correct moral or religious truth.
"The more you speak.. the more you make yourself look like a fool."
The Cross of Christ is folly to those who go towards perdition. You can still turn.
"Take your disdain elsewhere."
Disdain for what or whom? For false religion, yes. For half divinising a man who is wrong, yes, or one who was wrong while he lived.
- Naimul Haq
- +Hans-Georg Lundahl
You sound uneducated.
- Dan Marino
- +Hans-Georg Lundahl
I'm Christian, however, i don't 'follow' Christian values.. i apply them in my life and to those around me. I also revere Buddha and his teachings which were fundamental in the Christian faith (love.. compassion.. kindness) if you believe it or not. I also revere Lord Krishna's teachings of doing the right thing.. having no fear.. and Bhakti (devotion) to one God (who is inside you) Applying the lessons learned (that means accepting everyone as your equal and showing respect) are what these texts are all about.. nothing more.
- Hans-Georg Lundahl
- If you summarise Buddha and Bhagavadgita as you do, you might not be wrong doctrinally, only a bit historically.
[Was I "too charitable"? Possibly yes. Sounds more like an Apostate - or one heading there - than someone "doctrinally not wrong"]
Alas, there is another side to Buddhism and another side to Bhagavadgita.
And of course, the "might" here depends very much on how aware you are the titles and reverence you gave Gautama and Krishna ("revere", "Lord") are inappropriate for non-Christian deities and teachers.
For Plato and Aristotle I have respect, but not reverence. As to Krishna, I can hope for him he was a good friend of Arjuna, but he was not a pure teacher of truth only, as he is portrayed.
What I take exception to is, in the one case "life is suffering" and the rest of the "four noble truths" and on the other hand "victory and defeat are the same" ... "everything is the same". If I had never heard those things, or similar ones, I might have hoped both were decent men and given some grace which was misunderstood by the surroundings or - in the case of Krishna, since we have no contemporary writing - those coming long afterwards.
Now Naimul ... EVERY man sounds uneducated to those who have a different education, except when his education specifically includes a kind of understanding of that different education, and sometimes even then.
- Naimul Haq
- +Hans-Georg Lundahl
Education does not come in different packages, otherwise people of different cultures could not have defined an evolutionary continuum. I hope you understand.
- Hans-Georg Lundahl
- No, I very much do not understand what you mean by "people of different cultures" having "defined an evolutionary continuum".
I suspect it is a very incoherent remark and if you suspect otherwise, do have the courtesy to explain in somewhat more explicit words what you mean by "people of different cultures" having "defined an evolutionary continuum".
Education very much does come "in different packages". A Christian education and a Pharisaic education are very much not the same. They do very much not teach the eexact same values. They do very much not give alms to the poor in the same way (I think I am in a position to tell). They do not define virility in the same way.
While we are at education, the real apprenticeship of God when He was made Man and before He started preaching on the Kingdom of Heaven, was not with a Buddhist monk, was not with a Boddhisattva, but was with a Carpenter who was also His adoptive human father : St Joseph.
Next part we get into a wider discussion. He will introduce his meaning of evolutionary continuum. I would have guessed it better if I had read earlier parts of the thread where he expressed admiration for Hegel.
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