Saturday, May 19, 2018

Responding to AronRa on Politics


While he is speaking, the video is not on his channel.

Aron Ra - How Conservatives are Ruining America
Mechaghostman2 | 21.III.2018
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQZTJYyvO30


My comments will, through link to this post, be posted there too, meanwhile, here they are:

I
0:50 "the Puritans came to this country to escape religious persecution"

Here is what they were trying to avoid:

"King James I of England made some efforts to reconcile the Puritan clergy in England, who had been alienated by the conservatism blocking reform in the Church of England. Puritans embraced Calvinism (Reformed theology) with its opposition to ritual and an emphasis on preaching, a growing sabbatarianism, and preference for a presbyterian system of church polity as opposed to the episcopal polity of the Church of England, which had also preserved medieval canon law almost intact. They opposed church practices that resembled Roman Catholic ritual."

Sounds like persecution? Not really.

Here is what they brought on, at least in Massachusetts:

"Roger Williams preached religious toleration, separation of church and state, and a complete break with the Church of England. He was banished from the Massachusetts Bay Colony and founded Providence Plantations, which became the Rhode Island Colony and provided a haven for others such as Anne Hutchinson.[7] Quakers were also expelled from Massachusetts, but they were welcomed in Rhode Island.[8] Years later, four Quakers known as the Boston martyrs remained in Massachusetts and were executed by hanging for practicing their religion."

Sounds like they were very much into religious persecution - and fled because Charles I was too tolerant of Catholics for their taste.

My source for the quotes is this wiki:

Wikipedia : Puritan migration to New England (1620–40)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puritan_migration_to_New_England_(1620%E2%80%9340)


"and they brought it with them"

More like, they came to US to start it up. In US.

II
3:12 Why would one not support accidental parenthood?

Yes, one thing Tea Party is right on is, criminalise abortion.

"God bless Ireland, said the heros" ... I'm obviously for the 8th amendment being kept rather than increasing excuses for killing babies before they can get born.

No, if so and so has some accidental parenthood, it's her accident, but God's plan, for the little one.

By the way, let's not make it too accidental : a father who refuses to marry someone he made pregnant (if he is free to marry) should be fined at least. Or, if pushing for abortion, put in prison.

3:29 How about more opportunities for teen agers to provide for children? More allowance for teens marrying, better opportunities for teens to get some work ...

III
3:51 Eliminating free education is not an excellent idea, but not having it compulsory is one.

All school shooters either were in legally compulsory education or one which was in practise compulsory to them - or had been there to shortly before the shooting.

If I'm wrong on that stat, correct me on it.

What if Klebold had been able to get a job ... before 1999.

IV
4:02 The Saudi school - or whatever other Muslim school you showed - would in a Muslim country be as much tax funded as the nearly directly Atheist school, as it often is, is tax funded in US.

In Iran, at least Christian children are not forced to Muslim schools, I've heard.

Not that I'm a fan of a country where converts to Catholicism were just sentenced to ten years' prison.

V
4:14 Racial segregation - was it really Tea Party?

Thought those doing it before Civil Rights movement were Democrats?

But, OK, let's say it was Tea Party. It has other roots than just Christianity applied to politics.

VI
4:23 Are you sure you are not misrepresenting Tea Party here?

Would they not allow Non-Profit schools in poor areas? Would they not allow a private school that usually charges tuition to not charge from a poor family? Would they not allow it to get only what they need to pay teachers and have no shareholders?

VII
4:45 Child labour laws are a boon in cases where the child labour would be really hazardous to the health, like doing small services in big factories with hot smelting ovens or other dangerous machines.

I am reading Roots. I don't think Kunta ever heard of anyone in Juffure saying "I don't want to tend goats, I want more school" - and he had been a goat herd well before 17.

In Johanna Spyri's novel, Peter is also child labouring with goats and his mother has to be coaxed before he goes to school also - I don't think he was as unhappy with the goats as Heidi (the heroine) was in Frankfurt in the Sesenmann house. Btw, she (Johanna Spyri, not Heidi) knew something about depression. Her father was not a shrink, he lived off mainly somatic cases, but he took cases of depression, even deep depression, to live with his family - so she had observed it first hand.

I also don't think a boy of 14 minded walking with father on the business of sowing or perhaps even ploughing in the Middle Ages. You know a serf was obliged to a certain number of man-work days per year, but he need not come in person, he could send his sons. The more he had, the more leisure they had (but also somewhat less food, until perhaps a greater lot involved some more debt of man-work days).

VIII
4:58 Minimum wage ... is it equal all over US, or is it graded as per expenses for warming?

A minimum wage which is adequate for Alaska is a little fortune in San Diego. A minimum wage which is good for San Diego would freeze you to death in Alaska.

In the Middle Ages, I think there was for each line of business usually one wage for all employees, all over the companies, they had no right to compete by cutting expenses or by trying to get best workers - but that one was decided by local authorities, not national ones.

IX
5:38 Wages and lack of instruction ... factories didn't exist in exactly that sense in the Middle Ages. Cutting corners by making a very large factory where many men could be employed "more rationally" (a k a sweated) was not a thing licit to businessmen in the Middle Ages, and when Liberalism in the 19th C. made it licit, Luddites and the similar revolt of "les Canuts" tried to stop this as not in the interest of workers - or, ultimately public.

As said, wages were regulated, locally. So was the duty of the employer to instruct school child age apprentices:

  • Catechism
  • Reading and Writing
  • the kinds of Math applicable to the trade (instead of pi, many a tradesman has learned squaring the diameter and multplying by what is really approx pi/4, namely 11/14).


So, the apprentice going to journeyman (full paid employee?) at 14 was not uninstructed and the owner had been through and the owner's son was about to go through the exact same conditions of employment as the non-owning ones. You are employed under a weaver who has 3 employees, at 14, you have one chance in three of being in business as your own man 10 years later.

You are employed in a weaving factory which has 100 employees and where owners are not former employees, you are not likely to have even 1/100 chance, rather much closer to zero, to become your own man.

Thursday, May 17, 2018

Answering Donald Trump, President of U. S., on Subject of Embassy Moved to Jerusalem


His words on video:

President Donald J. Trump's Message Upon the Dedication of the U.S. Embassy in Jerusalem
The White House | 14.V.2018
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfuujUD-LD8


My answer in comments, also (so far) under the video:

I
Suppose Mexico invaded US ... not likely, but suppose ... would Mexico have a right to place its capital in Chicago?

To Israel, the Palestinians and all of their neighbours!

Thank God for that! God bless you for not quite forgetting the Israelites of Christian and Muslim confessions ... (if you wonder what I mean, do read last chapter of The Desert a City, it will give you a clue on what happened to Christians from Judaea, Samaria and Galilaea at the Persian and Muslim invasions).

II
Note, previous comment is from before I knew of the massacre Zionist army personnel perpetrated on protesting Palestinians.

Have you called the ambassador back?

Btw, was he a Jew?

Do you know how the Palestinian reaction was in c. 1920, when a Jew was sent as Britain's local government of Palestinian mandate?

Read up on it in The New Jerusalem, by Gilbert Keith Chesterton - it's a travel book.

THE NEW JERUSALEM
by G. K. CHESTERTON
http://www.gkc.org.uk/gkc/books/GKC_New_Jerusalem.html


Here are two more books I recommend to understanding the post-Acts and post-Bellum Judaicum history of the Holy Land:

The Desert a City: An Introduction to the Study of Egyptian and Palestian Monasticism Under the Christian Empire (Anglais)
Broché – 1 janvier 1977
de Derwas J. Chitty (Auteur)
https://www.amazon.fr/Desert-City-Introduction-Palestian-Monasticism/dp/0913836451


Mostly on Egypt, but partly - last chapter - Holy Land. Here is the other one:

How the Holy Cross Was Found: From Event to Medieval Legend With an Appendix of Texts
Paperback – 1991
by Stephan Borgehammar
https://www.amazon.com/How-Holy-Cross-Was-Found/dp/B01HF0LLNW


As to the Muslim Hebrews, there seems to have been at least some degree of recklessness:

A Baby Died in Gaza
May 16, 2018 by Susan Wright
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/susanwright/2018/05/a-baby-died-in-gaza/


That said ... were Israeli troops firing and using tear gas when babies were around?

Tuesday, May 15, 2018

Chomsky's Not Happy, and Trump's Not the Main Issue


Noam Chomsky: Donald Trump is a Distraction
ANONYMOUS | 3.III.2018
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQvig0KvUaE


I

Supposing you are right on global warming, Chomsky ... I can think of an analogue.

Nimrod projecting to launch from Göbekli Tepe or perhaps Harran a three step rocket fueled, not by "controlled Uranium," but by an atomic bomb like explosion.

I do not know whether global warming is happening or not, but am for measures which would if so reduce petrol use - and am for them on other grounds. As a distributist I think a more local economy is excellent for more widespread ownership of means of production.

If you buy an ecco shoe, in most towns in the world, getting the shoe to you has cost petrol or perhaps in trains electricity (Harrisburg, Chernobyl, anyone?). But also, in most towns where you can buy an ecco shoe, you are hard set to earn your living as a local producer of a similar footwear (in some ecco shoes are well balanced by locally made sandals or ... looked it up ... Espadrille shoes, but in Paris I think the cheap Espadrilles are from elsewhere (also, not ideal to walk the streets in)).

While bakers are very well employed and self emloyed in France, Harry's and Banette are taking away some opportunities - perhaps not too many, though. Banette also at least gives a local baker some opportunity to finish the work and get a margin while concentrating on making, perhaps, flan, chocolate breads and croissants, or sth. Harry's and Banette obviously get to most places in France (outside Marseille for Banette and I don't know where for Harry's) in trains or on roads.

So, a more localised economy in the physical sense (leaving perhaps internet as the most globalised thing, not as a byproduct of globalisation) would be good in my view and would also do good on the view of those deploring petroleum use.

II

I can agree on Republican Party.

Under Trump they did not try to vote any bill outlawing abortion.

Have you seen William Tapley's video on that one?

Monday, April 23, 2018

... on Golding's Famous Novel and on Youth


I have commented on first half, minute by minute (see time signatures as denoting where comments are to), not yet heard second half. I have also after making the comments prayed 3 Hail Mary's for that poor priest.

Video commented on:
Error of Juvenilism
Sensus Fidelium | Added 19.IV.2018
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHvp9Uz51KI


I
1:28 The boys become superstitious?

Come on!

They WERE superstitious before, and Piggy held to the modern superstition of scientism as a "remedy" against the emerging superstition.

None of them, neither Ralph, nor the ruffian (I forgot his name), neither Piggy nor anyone else has had catechism.

MUCH of the savagery of the ruffian is simply an attempt to "replace" what was not needed in the first place, the control of the boarding school.

From your description:

"we are now told that the young should lead, guide, and teach the old."

Er, no, "we" were told that in 1968. My ma was not among the culprits.

Now that the generation of 1968 is getting old, we are hearing complaints about Juvenilism.

The generation born around WW-II was often rebelling against their grandfathers (their fathers often absent in war) and now they can't stand their grandchildren rebelling (if that is the word) against them.

Young people spend YEARS more than before 1968 to get married and to get a position (independent losing to jobs), partly because those young in 1968 want to make sure about more and more factors in their grandchildren's lives before allowing a marriage.

I think it was yourself who said that Antichrist cannot come (according to Bellarmine and other saints) before the East regains control over the West. But these complaints about Juvenilism, about Immaturity (some people in France think you are immature if you read Narnia or LotR beyond your teens), they ARE Eastern control over the West.

Western culture has some degree of Juvenilism since Héloïse and Abélard got their marriage destroyed by older family members and since Sts Francis and Clare of Assisi did not get their "monastic" vocations destroyed by older family members, nor did St Thomas Aquinas.

Some old people in Paris feel ill at ease if their young ones can read on a blog arguments they never thought of that disprove evolution and prove Heliocentrism at least moot (which considering its prima facie should be enough to disprove it).

Some old people in St Nicolas du Chardonnet did not wish their young ones to be starting any carreers as editors of the paper versions of my by now 6000 + articles on the blogs. And the youth obeyed, as if they were Confucians or Muslims or Jews or Hindoos or Freemasons or Protestants or similar Oriental to Overparenting stuff.

1:28 "they form hostile factions"

Sure, they were put first in a boarding school and then landed on an island with each other they would not have chosen as company and their parents would not have chosen as company.

The outcome is as obvious at Columbine High School as in a novel. The roots can be seen in the fact that none of the school shooters has been homeschooled, at least for long.

People who can't get along, they should not be forced together. And their forcing together and power play at the school was a preparation for their power play on the island.

Because, if they had been from different schools, say, one Catholic and one Protestant, they would have separated on the island and tried to stay good neighbours at a distance.

Harmful violence to others is due to parents and teachers being absent?

Look away from that novel and back to Columbine.

Sure, Klebold and many others (perhaps all) had absent fathers. But there were other adults "in control." The problem is, the school leaves youth less and less freedom as it eats more and more of the lives of those who would willingly try sth totally different while their presence is anything from a menace to a burden of reproach "oh, it's ok for you, you somehow like the stuff" - and as a result, the control is resented as a slavery.

One good point for Madame Pénicaud, the present minister of education in France, she sets out to valorise apprenticeship ... but après le lycée, you know.

With a class of eager interested intellectuals and intellectual wannabes and a lot of smaller groups clustering in mid school age or earlier around someone able to teach them to cook, fix a bike, slaughter a pig and make it edible for human consumption, bake oven loads of bread and sth they can start living off soon enough, that would restore quite a lot of authority - and not destroy the freedom.

Authority and control are not the same thing.

1:57 Please.

We are not Pelagians, but neither do we believe in Total corruption. While I love tea, I don't take "TULIP T".

The boys having been together at a school is an evil societal background, their lacking Catechism (and having Piggy full of scientist ... I'd nearly have made a bad pun ... as nearest substitute for reminders of civilised thought), this is an evil societal background.

Within the boys, there is definitely in any case the consequences of original sin. In case some are not baptised, original sin itself is still damning as well as festering, unless someone in such a position made the relevant acts. But there is also an absence of certain qualities which are better preserved elsewhere than in English boarding schools.

Also, unlike sacraments and unlike acts for which God gives their graces, age per se is not an antidote to original sin. More sophisticated does not automatically mean more innocent.

Age of a culture means it has survived several generations and provided an antidote to some very heinous faults, prompted by the curse of Adam.

Age of an individual does not necessarily mean so, especially not in a culture which has so many collective means for keeping its members alive, despite stupidities, both for rich and poor.

II
2:55 Youth may indeed require some authority, but not the degree which stops them from marrying year after year - if authority is even a word for that.

Youth very certainly is a time for marrying:

"Let thy vein be blessed, and rejoice with the wife of thy youth:"
[Proverbs 5:18]

In Polish the bride and bridegroom are called "mloda panna" and "mlody kawaler", mlody, mloda, mlodo meaning young, and panna meaning young lady. I don't think you need a translation for "kawaler". (Niestetny, Poles, I had no barred l's to spell it correctly ...)

Today we have parents and grandparents saying "no, she can't marry at 26, she still behaves like 15" ... guess what age was very typical at least among people who could afford it, for a bride in the Middle Ages?

And you cannot reply that young marriages require the couple to be subject to parental authority of grandparents, since the Church clearly taught that while marrying against the will of the parents is usually a mortal sin (Trent), it nevertheless does not make the marriage invalid (St Thomas Aquinas).

The generation which went wild against their parents and grandparents in 1968 is again going wild against normal freedoms of their grandchildren.

3:18 Only when youth is replaced by maturity good things begin to be realised, you said?

If marriage is a good, you just contradicted Proverbs 5:18!

Who laid his hands on you without checking you know and believe the entire Bible?

You are also contradicting experience:

New blog on the kid : Highly Recommended Reading : OSN
http://nov9blogg9.blogspot.fr/2016/04/highly-recommended-reading-osn.html


Orange Street News is not made by a mature reporter, but by the young daughter of one.

That alone should put to shame the youth in St Nicolas du Chardonnet which has not felt mature enough to read my blogs and edit paper editions of them ... while the curés have in their turn not felt mature enough to either approve or condemn their contents.

If they are approved, they deserve to be a gain as well as an occupation, to others as well as of me. If they are condemned, they rather deserve to give their author some opportunity for debate or for accepting a correction, if I deem it a Catholic one.

Landing them in a longstanding limbo, scandalising those who among Atheists here wish me well, who would gladly edit if I made a good defense of Evolution, pushing me to a choice between abandoning my good work or getting physically burdened to degraded - I choose the latter, but partly in blindness, believing in more goodwill than there was over there - just because it is awkward to some that an "obviously immature" or "idiotic" work cannot be exposed as un-Catholic, and pretending to help me to "mature" into abandoning my positions myself - that is the work of a synagogue of Satan. NOT a worthy work of the Church. NOT a worthy work of tradition (even if there are shades between you and SSPX).

III
3:53 "as King David states in one of the Psalms, dearest Lord, do not remember the sins of my youth and my rebellious ways"

Again, who laid hands on you when you do not know the Bible!

"The sins of my youth and my ignorances do not remember. According to thy mercy remember thou me: for thy goodness' sake, O Lord."
[Psalms 24:7]

An "ignorance" and a "rebellious way" are two different things.

What "rebellious ways" would King David have had to repent of?

Rebellion against a Rabbi in Schul, when bored with Square Letters? Er, no. School for all Hebrews is not a Mosaic law and is about one millennium after him, after they had already rejected his Son. He spent his youth tending to sheep. A bear and a lion cannot be considered authorities.

Rebellious ways against his brother?

"And David said: What have I done? is there not cause to speak?"
[1 Kings (1 Samuel) 17:29]

No .... God rewarded that "rebellious way".

Or against the King, Saul .... when obeying him would have been suicide, supposing Saul had even explicitly ordered him to give himself over ... and when in fact in God's eyes he had more authority than Saul, since God had replaced Saul with him?

No, do not think so ...

I do NOT know what exact ignorance King David was reproaching himself, but it makes no sense to pretend it was "rebellious ways".

How can you stay a curate rather than get to a monastery and serve Mass only at side altars, if you misscite the word of God, the first thing the serpent is known to have done, in order to make a point against your pet peeve?

I have myself conflated two passages, but it was bad memory, and I am not a clergyman!

IV
5:03 I am somewhat relieved you do not quite approve of the "enough is enough" demo ...

That actual banner is per se not wrong.

But the problem is, they are blaming guns instead of blaiming school compulsion and even more practical compulsion than legal one. AND in so doing, they ARE listening to ... their teachers, their parents in the block, most of whom are easily influenced by teachers who have an exorbitant power today.

And the school which produced Columbine High school shooting (arguably Columbine High school) and the one which produced latest shooting are telling younger people, for longer and longer, to listen, about subjects they did not always choose totally freely, listen to more and more old people while there are fewer and fewer young ones to do that listening, for longer and longer years.

The teachers are one of the factions (more Piggy's than Ralph's, if Piggy had had the power to make one) on the Island of Golding's Novel, at least they are behaving so.

V
6:59 I consider I could read Lord of the Rings until I was 100 years old, and still learn something new, but very dishonourable people have risen up against me, considering that as Peter Pan syndrome.

I consider, I had the right to try to be a writer, and with 6000 + articles, I have shown the capacity to feed readers with texts, therefore potentially printers and myself with buyers (though as of late, some networks of older people have strangled my afflux of readers among the young).

Some very dishonourable people rise up against me on that account too, considering it a Peter Pan syndrome that I hope to accomplish a childhood dream.

If you are a believer in the diagnosis Peter Pan syndrome, you are as superstitious as Piggy or worse ... perhaps as superstitious as the idolater and brute in Golding's novel. Again : what are YOU doing as a curate? Who laid hands on you? Why don't you get to a side altar in a monastery instead of abusing your position to spout novelties of a blasphemous nature, blaspheming the Creator by maligning His Creature?

I am certainly not intending to be irresponsible and unserious. I have so far been kept so against my will, by people with your ideas on "Peter Pan syndrome".

7:34 While I don't share Kofi Anan's taste in revolutions, start up businesses are a very good deal for young people. I have provided an occasion and been denied the ones who could have profited from it.

Note very well, a farm per se does not need to be a start up, farms should last for centuries ... but today too few are farmers.

Too many need some substitute for farming. One farm visited by Elisabeth and Prince Philip gave jobs to a small family - but bread to 1000. Most of whom need to earn it in other ways than farming.

Friday, April 20, 2018

Were Byzantines Better, Continued


Continued
from part I, and italics denote citation of opponents previous (usually immediately so) comment.

Panos A
+Hans-Georg Lundahl
Not to mention that you just insulted how your fellow Greeks eat the gyros

LOL! You are the evidence of how pathetic villagers try to over-do it when trying "going to Rome and be like Romans". In Greece we call it "becoming more royal than royalty". The excess that divides the civilized and the pseudo-civilized. Shits like British manners and Savoir Vivre are the evidence of that. Idiot : gyros is the meat and gets its name from the rotating barbeque and of course it is eaten like all other types of meat, with fork and knife. By extension gyros can also be the sandwich eaten in bread or more popularly in pitta. And bread is eaten with hands, not with spoon an fork

Having clarified this point let us go to your other key, but failed, points.

"""""Emperor""""" Charly : a commemorative coin is no official document. Sure when Pope named him as such they would had minted such things. His state's coins were stating king, not emperor. His legal documents mentioned king. His descendants were kings not Emperors. The title """Emperor"""" is note in history in conjunction with Pope's failed effort to re-institute the long-defunct Western Roman Empire.

Holy Roman Empire : no more shit please : the full title applied on the riff-raff joke-of-a-state appears after 1200s and not in the 1000s of 1100s as often is mentioned in western historiography. The term "Empire" is a misuse of the term as it was a riff-raff collection of totally independent and often fighting with each other states (note: NOT CIVIL WARS within the same state but wars between states). The HRE term is kept in history as a practical joke summed up by Voltaire if I remember correctly : Not Holy, Not Roman and Not an Empire.

Otto I became Holy Roman Emperor on Februrary 2nd 962, succeeding Berengarius II of Italy, who had submitted to him in 961. The thing that changes is that the Germanic nation becomes the main one. If on your view Hellenic nation could do so, why not Germanic nation

First of all it is not my view, that is the historic reality. Second, claiming Germans could claim the "Roman" term is like claiming Indians could claim the term "Chinese Empire". Germans were not part of the Roman Empire and even when they - mostly ethnic Goths (Germanophone speaking an eastern germanic language but hardly any ethnic Germans) - joined in they had joined as Foederati and were banned from being Emperors, he reason why Stilicho, of Vandal father and Roman mother, could not become Emperor himself and, as a magister militum, he had to be ruled by weak western Emperor Valentinian II, then by Theodosios and then Honorius. On the contrary Greeks were part of the Roman Empire and were the first nation other than Latins who were massively given citizenship much prior to Caracalla's reforms in the 3rd century. Romans themselves acknowledged their own existence being interwoven with that of Greeks and that their Empire's civilizational base was the Greek civilization. With the transfer of capital from West to the East that happened not in 330 but in 285 and by (pagan and quite a staunch anti-christian and a latin-speaker) Emperor Diocletianus, the Greeks who already helf high offices in the regions eastern part of the Empire, not just in Greece but throughout Asia and North Africa, then they became the nation that manned the Empire's bureaucracy, the reason why already in Constantine's time all laws, typically written still in Latin, had to be instantly translated to Greek. So much this interwoving was going on that in the following centuries the terms "Greek" and "Roman" were being used interchangeably to the point that Latins were not anymore linked to the "Roman" term but rather to... Pope and the city of Rome only. "Roman" was a political term linked hence to Greeks. WHERE do the Germans fit in all that? They destroyed the western part and there was no Roman Empire there anymore. And then centuries later they jump up on the basis of occupying north Italy to claim what? Being Romans? LOL! Holy Chinese Empire... of Bollywood! Sure they used all the terms they liked to use but that has nothing to do with reality.

+Hans-Georg Lundahl

Now let us go back to gyros...

Indeed, St Peter Damian who was a trad preferred to eat

He was from Ravenna. One of the last vestiges of Eastern Roman rule in North Italy. Though he lived a couple of centuries after the end of that rule as such he only knew half the manners. LOL!

If you have ever eaten a hamburger, sausage or chicken without fork, you have been taught to eat like a Latin Frank.

I ignore how "Latin Franks" eat humburgers, sausage and chicken but I personally eat hamburgers with knife and fork, sausages with knife and fork (I eat these with hands only in a sandwich, just like the case of gyros) and chicken with knife and fork apart the leg for which I may use the hand if there is easy access to water or if I have to lift-off and go to another room to wash, I may as well use a napkin piece to hold it (but as said that is my own personal preference, it is not Savoir Vivre).

In fact, I didn't, I was of course willing to make Italy rather than Byzantium origin of the modern fork, but I checked. I did know a Western Medieval knight for centuries after 1056 was expected to use his fingers. I do not consider that as barbaric

Nor do I. I think you are losing the core issue here which is not to pinpoint the correct way to eat or which style is best, forks, sticks or hands whatever. The case is that the eating habits are one of the most basic civilizational traits and it happens that while European eating manners are derived by medieval Greeks, of the Eastern Roman Empire, popularized of course first in Italy and then in the rest of Europe not a single European knows about that. Not the slightest. And that is something extremely basic and extremely important. Not knowing something as basic as that cannot permit anyoen to claim he "knows about Byzantines". No western European knows about "Byzantines". Ask them on Roman Law and most will think Roman Law was the Law of Rome - I have seen this even in "historical documentaries" counted as the legacy of Rome, claiming to be serious! LOL!

But since you thought the issue was about cleanliness and filthyness in eating manners, there is tons of that stuff in medieval Greek literature as Greeks loved to describe how filthy were western Europeans, and in particular their aristocrats and royalties... fuck the Crusades, fuck the early Renaissance... as late as in the year 1400, i.e. well into the Renaissance, one of the last Eastern Roman Emperors, Emmanuel Paleologos did a tour reaching up to Britain to discuss the idea of another Crusade. The British - who back then were of the most progressive and fast-developing states in Europe - were not interested but were nontheless delighted in hosting an Emperor so their royalties (the king was Henry IV - raised in France in the manners of the... Franks! LOL!) outdid themselves to host him well and impress him with their feast. Needless to say it was a savegery.... Emmanuel left disgusted... dirty people, dirty hands, foods randomly on tables like a buffet on which everyone was attacking anyhow and anymeans, LOL! And lots of dogs and cats circulating around walking on tables and grabbing bits and parts. In Greece, even in the sad, destroyed Greece of 1400s not even in the lowliest of social settings would anyone see such a miserable picture. In year 1400 ... so imagine what was the case earlier! LOL!

It is fairly clear you indulge in a typical Byzantine (according to my experience) habit of overinterpretation

Over-interpretation? Exaggeration you mean?* You mean the 99,999% is an exaggeration? You may as well be right. In Europe alone (not counting European people living elsewhere) there are around 750,000,000 people. Subtract 10 million Greeks (even that I shouldn't as indeed more than half of Greeks ignore this issue too, the case of a faulty educational system designed from abroad). The 0,001% of 740,000,000 million Europeans is 740,000 souls. Which indeed is an over-exaggeration as European who know this issue are far fewer than that.

I mention this just to show how little you know on one of the most basic characteristics of your culture.

*
No, I don't mean that, overinterpretation and exaggeration are different things. Eisegesis is not hyperbole. I can't lecture him on everything.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
[answer divided on youtube into
three parts.]
First part:

"And bread is eaten with hands, not with spoon an fork"

Including if it involves gyros inside ... meaning, meat is not always eaten with fork.

"a commemorative coin is no official document."

Who says it was commemorative?

"Sure when Pope named him as such they would had minted such things."

It is not from Rome AD 800. It is from Mainz 812.

"His state's coins were stating king, not emperor."

Those minted before 800 (he acceeded the crown in 768, 1200 years before I was born), certainly.

"His legal documents mentioned king."

Dito.

"His descendants were kings"

Since he had three sons or grandsons, the two who were not emperor were kings.

"not Emperors."

True only of the ones who were NOT in the line already given, which seemingly you ignored.

"The HRE term is kept in history as a practical joke summed up by Voltaire if I remember correctly : Not Holy, Not Roman and Not an Empire."

Thanks for showing once again you are not a Christian.

After showing deplorable ignorance of history of HRE.

Christian Bohemia was as integral to HRE as Texas to US before the Civil War which had a centralising outcome. Poland and Hungary were as close to HRE as Guam and Philippines and Puerto Rico are to US.

"First of all it is not my view, that is the historic reality."

Not on the view of those who consider Byzantine as Un-Roman since ignorant of Latin.

"Second, claiming Germans could claim the "Roman" term is like claiming Indians could claim the term "Chinese Empire"."

More like saying Mongols and Manchurians could.

Vienna was a Roman Oppidum under Caesar Augustus.

"Germans were not part of the Roman Empire"

Germans were superficial newocomers in more than one part of HRE, even when imposing the language. Also, since Domitian, some Germans were part of Roman Empire. Look at Porta Nigra in Trier (if you visit or online).

"and even when they - mostly ethnic Goths (Germanophone speaking an eastern germanic language but hardly any ethnic Germans) - joined in they had joined as Foederati and were banned from being Emperors, he reason why Stilicho, of Vandal father and Roman mother, could not become Emperor himself and, as a magister militum, he had to be ruled by weak western Emperor Valentinian II, then by Theodosios and then Honorius."

You cannot equate either Austrians, of non-Germanic, ultimately Celtic, origin, or Franks with Goths or Vandals.

The status is not the same, since they are not the same historic entity.

"On the contrary Greeks were part of the Roman Empire"

Like later also Germans, before breakup. AND Celts, the origin of some parts of the Germanies.

"and were the first nation other than Latins who were massively given citizenship"

I thought non-Latin Italians were and later ... Celts, because that is how Julius Caesar got votes.

"Romans themselves acknowledged their own existence being interwoven with that of Greeks and that their Empire's civilizational base was the Greek civilization."

Not disputed. Note, it was a Greek civilisation as yet ignorant of using fork while eating. They ate meat like gyros is eaten in pita.

"With the transfer of capital from West to the East that happened not in 330 but in 285"

Rome was however restored as capital. AND if capital could be transferred to Constantinople, it could also be so to Aachen or Vienna.

"the reason why already in Constantine's time all laws, typically written still in Latin, had to be instantly translated to Greek."

As in HRE a Latin law was routinely translated to diverse dialects of German (in diverse chanceries).

"WHERE do the Germans fit in all that? They destroyed the western part and there was no Roman Empire there anymore."

That is false. You are missing the story of Syagrius and of Clovis. You are pretending Franks are Goths when Franks are NOT Goths.

"He was from Ravenna. One of the last vestiges of Eastern Roman rule in North Italy. Though he lived a couple of centuries after the end of that rule as such he only knew half the manners. LOL!"

Who says forks had been invented before Byzantium lost Ravenna?

"Nor do I. I think you are losing the core issue here which is not to pinpoint the correct way to eat or which style is best, forks, sticks or hands whatever. The case is that the eating habits are one of the most basic civilizational traits"

Laws and literature are more important, I'd say.

"and it happens that while European eating manners are derived by medieval Greeks, of the Eastern Roman Empire, popularized of course first in Italy and then in the rest of Europe not a single European knows about that. Not the slightest."

Apart from mistaking the origin as being Italian, I did.

I also happen to be European.

"Not knowing something as basic as that cannot permit anyoen to claim he "knows about Byzantines"."

Anyone can have a lacuna, no single lacuna can be made an excuse for "you know nothing".

"Ask them on Roman Law and most will think Roman Law was the Law of Rome - I have seen this even in "historical documentaries" counted as the legacy of Rome, claiming to be serious! LOL!"

I don't labour under the ignorance consider Codex Iuris Civilis by Justinian (from Constantinople) to have been in force in the times of Nero or Domitian. I do know, the original wording of "in incertum vagantes" was a warrant for making slaves out of beggars. In HRE it was reinterpreted so that a beggar was instead put in apprenticeship, unless he already knew two trades and had no chance of living off either, in which case he was allowed to beg.

Again, HRE more civilised than Byzantium. Need I get to castrate signers?

Castration was illegal in Austria, and the man who had offered Haydn to save his voice could have been put to prison by Haydn's father. Guess where it was most practised? Venice.

Again, what does "spadarius" mean?

"there is tons of that stuff in medieval Greek literature as Greeks loved to describe how filthy were western Europeans,"

It could be a topos among Pharisees and Pharisaically minded men, right?

"and in particular their aristocrats and royalties... fuck the Crusades, fuck the early Renaissance... as late as in the year 1400, i.e. well into the Renaissance, one of the last Eastern Roman Emperors, Emmanuel Paleologos did a tour reaching up to Britain to discuss the idea of another Crusade. The British - who back then were of the most progressive and fast-developing states in Europe - were not interested but were nontheless delighted in hosting an Emperor so their royalties (the king was Henry IV - raised in France in the manners of the... Franks! LOL!) outdid themselves to host him well and impress him with their feast. Needless to say it was a savegery.... Emmanuel left disgusted... dirty people, dirty hands, foods randomly on tables like a buffet on which everyone was attacking anyhow and anymeans,"

1400 was "well into the Renaissance" in Italy, not in England. (Britain is an anachronism, since England, Scotland and Ireland were three separate kingdoms).

It was also during 100 Years' War.

Any royalty had spent years in camps and on battlefields. Even in France, manners were arguably worse than earlier in the time of St Louis IX. However, I think part of what he may have reacted to was the very idea of a buffet.

"And lots of dogs and cats circulating around walking on tables and grabbing bits and parts."

Sounds Biblical. Matthew 15:27.

Walking on tables sounds like cats ...

"The 0,001% of 740,000,000 million Europeans is 740,000 souls. Which indeed is an over-exaggeration as European who know this issue are far fewer than that."

I'd definitely say there are layers of people where historical knowledge is no big thing in the first place.

Panos A
+Hans-Georg Lundahl Look idiot, you are not going to convince anyone with your blabbering talk ... Roman Law existing under Nero or Domitian... idiot you have no clue of what is Roman Law. It is NOT the legal system of Old Rome which was a patchwork that covered over the earlier borrowing of the Attic Code of Law. Roman Law does not refer to single laws idiot, it refers to the COOOODDDDEEE of Laws, it is a whole work behind to rationalize the justice system. Hand-picking laws and claiming this or that existed under Nero will get you nowhere. Sure, the law that forbids murder exists since before the code of laws of Hamurabi. So what?

Again, HRE more civilised than Byzantium. Need I get to castrate signers

Oh you found castration (a millenia old practice all over the world... ) to claim the Unholy Unroman Notempire as more civilized than the Eastern Roman Empire? Idiot, the Eastern Roman Empire had a more educated population than your country currently has. There has never been any Empire, any state, any culture that has been more admired in its days than that of Constantinople, not ancient Rome, not even ancient Athens, forget about the rest. The Holy Roman Empire was a pile of nothingness, made out of a massive illiterate mass ruled by modestly educated (you know... the basics...) oligarchs who were basically run by the Venetians.

Try better next time.

Hans-Georg Lundahl
"Look idiot, you are not going to convince anyone with your blabbering talk"

Reading is a synaesthesia ... but you push it very far into some delirium about how I sound and you seem to omit reading the actual words.

"Roman Law existing under Nero or Domitian... idiot you have no clue of what is Roman Law."

I made fairly clear it was not I who imagined that, but my adversaries in discussions - your equals in condescension, your inferiors about Roman Law knowledge.

"It is NOT the legal system of Old Rome which was a patchwork that covered over the earlier borrowing of the Attic Code of Law."

I am, as I already explained, well aware that Codex Iuris Civilis comes from Justinian who ruled in Constantinople.

"Roman Law does not refer to single laws idiot, it refers to the COOOODDDDEEE of Laws, it is a whole work behind to rationalize the justice system. Hand-picking laws and claiming this or that existed under Nero will get you nowhere."

The one law I did handpick in order to confer how it applied under Justinian and how it applied under Holy Roman Emperor had nothing to do with Nero.

My point was, it had one wording in Justinian's original, which was slave-hunting and one application in Holy Roman Empire which was not so.

"Oh you found castration (a millenia old practice all over the world... ) to claim the Unholy Unroman Notempire as more civilized than the Eastern Roman Empire? Idiot, the Eastern Roman Empire had a more educated population than your country currently has."

So, you imagine of two places and times, one has more reading skills (something you are not showing, but you could blame the non-Greek half) and the other has no legal possibility to castrate anyone, even if it is sometimes circumvented ... and your criterium for civilisation is such that the reading skills are more important?

Since, as the Classics professor we listened to said (or perhaps I only read his subtitles), the backbone of Byzantine civilisation was a transcendental view of the world, of life, in occurrence a Christian one, civilisation should be judged by how Christian it was. Lacking reading skills is far less of a blemish than castration. HRE was more Holy than Byzantine Empire.

Panos A
Since, as the Classics professor we listened to said (or perhaps I only read his subtitles), the backbone of Byzantine civilisation was a transcendental view of the world, of life, in occurrence a Christian one, civilisation should be judged by how Christian it was

Blah blah blah... meanwhile back in reality, those you call idiotically `````byzantines````` went to school at the tender age of 6 learning the alphabet and reading on the Iliad. Of course in your culture - which is merely a local culture, not a civilization - you have never produced such works so a direct comparison would not be possible but still, there has never been a single germanic school where schoolchildren learnt to read directly on Goethe or Schiller. Greek kids in the Middle Ages did it, directly on Homer. Iliad and Oddysey. Bitch (to bring it down to your semi-illiterate level).

Idiot, there has never been a civilization that matched the Eastern Roman`s citizens`average educational level. Ever. Not even ancient Greeks - speaking on average - had attained that refinement. Your 18th century baroc-oco poets and writers are caricatures - your own greatest philosopher, little Friedrich, admitted so. Above I had shown you that you pathetically ignored even where you got your own eating habits, as said, it is useless to even having this conversation with you whem you try to compare World Cup level teams with your 3rd division village teams... Holy Roman Empire - the best joke of European history. LOL!

Hans-Georg Lundahl
"Blah blah blah... meanwhile back in reality,"

Look, reality is not a nickname for your own idiosyncrasies.

"those you call idiotically `````byzantines````` went to school at the tender age of 6 learning the alphabet and reading on the Iliad."

And Homer who never learned to write would have been horrified at what Byzantines were doing at other levels. Like gouging or castration, for two.

"Of course in your culture - which is merely a local culture, not a civilization - you have never produced such works"

Virgil's Aeneid and anonymous poet's Beowulf are not such works - how?

Anonymous poet's Nibelungen is not such a work - how?

Or were you unaware these works exist? And that where they were written, you did not have any spadarius anymore than whereever Homer made the Iliad.

"so a direct comparison would not be possible but still, there has never been a single germanic school where schoolchildren learnt to read directly on Goethe or Schiller."

There have been over Frankish kingdom and Roman Empire where they went from Disticha Catonis to Phaedrus, from Phaedrus to Hexameters of some Virgil, Prudentius, Statius.

"Greek kids in the Middle Ages did it, directly on Homer. Iliad and Oddysey. Bitch (to bring it down to your semi-illiterate level)."

And Latin Franks did it on Latin ... as for your epithet abut me, I am not the one using "blah blah" or "idiot" or "back in reality" or things, you are the one doing so, and you just added one.

"Idiot, there has never been a civilization that matched the Eastern Roman`s citizens`average educational level. Ever. "

Another "idiot" and again from Mister Savoir Vivre à la Nouvelle Rome ...

You gave me that "statistic" once before, and I asked how you did statistics about how many OF the East Romans actually did go to school and actually did acquire this proficiency. You did not answer then ...

"Not even ancient Greeks - speaking on average - had attained that refinement."

And how do you get an average for Ancient Greece? It was not even one single state with one single educational system ...

"Your 18th century baroc-oco poets and writers are caricatures - your own greatest philosopher, little Friedrich, admitted so."

I actually do not know whom you call our greatest philosopher "Friedrich" ... do you mean Nietzsche?

I am NOT Prussian, I do NOT consider either Nietzsche or Schopenhauer as "my" philosophers, they are NORTH of the Danube border. I was born in Vienna, where Marcus Aurelius died, and my greatest philosophers are Sts Thomas Aquinas, Bonaventura, Albert of Saxony, as well as Bishop Étienne Tempier ...

I also do not consider either Schiller or Goethe as being as great as Aeneid or ... Tolkien. If no German schoolboy on German schools learned German directly from them, it is because:

  • when German became learning language, the idea of Classics as the very basics was gone;
  • Homer has a grammar simpler than that of Classic Attic, Goethe has a grammar more complex than Grimmelshausen (who, let's be fair, was NOT a Prussian either).


"Above I had shown you that you pathetically ignored even where you got your own eating habits"

One of them, with some degree of ignorance - which you show too if you imagine that eating with fork is sth which had been lost between Exarchate of Ravenna and St Peter Damien.

It is a Byzantine invention. Like eating with chop sticks is a Chinese one. It is not Ancient Greek and not Ancient Roman.

Any fork from Augustus' time was as different from a table fork as a ladle is from a spoon. It was used for serving boiled meat without giving too much liquid. It was not put into anyone's mouth. It is Medieval Franks, Latins, who better preserved Old Roman eating habits, though now we are Byzantinised.

"whem you try to compare World Cup level teams with your 3rd division village teams"

If you think of size, how about comparing the extent of Charles V of Holy Roman Empire with that of the last Palaeologus?

But I am not into size. I am into gentleness. That is why I value things like:

  • no slavery
  • no gouging
  • no castration


and these things are earlier on in Francia than in Byzantium.

Monday, April 16, 2018

If Anyone Thinks I am or will be a Mason ...


Sorry to promote a Masonic channel, by linking to a video on it, but it is needed to clear my name.

How to Identify Freemasons
What is a Mason | Ajoutée le 11 mars 2018
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErZsAiz4Pws


Generally : get out of that damned thing!

[more specific comments:]

So, at 4:07, if a fellow Catholic Antimason pretends to identify me as a Mason, he needs to watch this video, I haven't done any of above to get identified as a Mason, right?

5:16 Or the good person, if such, could be a Catholic.

So, if a Mason tries to identify me as a Mason by some flattery about my moral shape, he also needs to watch this video, right?

6:34 Seriously guys!

We Catholics have our modes of recognition called Symbol of the Faith.

If you recite the Apostolic Creed and don't SAY outright you are a Mason - not you, I already saw the video - I'll take you for a Catholic.

But you seem to need to learn "modes of recognition" and "being tried" in absurdum and that not from any "clergyman" but from the one you trust most or are closest to.

Reminds me of Saunière's rose on the door in Dan Brown's novel.

What a horrible culture of secrecy. Even supposing you don't have some dirty secret (I would not absolutely bet on it, but let's give you the benefit of the doubt), you can be sure such a culture of secrecy leads to others having them - and getting them protected.

7:07 So before you help a guy, you make sure he is a brother and before he accepts help from you he makes sure you are one?

S e r i o u s l y ... Mussolini had a point in suppressing freemasonry, unfortunately somewhat mingled with making Fascism a parallel one:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppression_of_Freemasonry#Italy

8:26 No need to thank me for continued support. I am not a supporter.

I am obviously sharing this outside anything called lodge as best as I can ...

M 77
U 85 150 12
S 83 230 15
S 83 310 18
O 79 380 27
L 76 450 33
I 73 520 36
N 78 590 44
I 73 660 47 = 707

Hand signs and hand shakes of Freemasons That they use in Court
Raise a Little AL | Ajoutée le 25 juin 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaf6Lvn9_FU


A) 1:33 "are you travelling"

That would mean, someone who was travelling in a literal sense, because he was homeless, could answer "yes" and be taken for a freemason?

Even without the handshake (I cut connections with a man who gave me a funny handshake), if they reported this ...

Obviously, for a long time I have answered no, I am in and around Paris, which is the truth.

B) In other words, if Mark Shea likes to whisper "hail hydra", we cannot say he is a Mason, but he is in somewhat bad company? Knights of Columbus being that.

Tuesday, April 10, 2018

Why do anti-theists act like Young-Earth Creationism is the only valid interpretation of Genesis? (quora)


Q
Why do anti-theists act like Young-Earth Creationism is the only valid interpretation of Genesis?
https://www.quora.com/Why-do-anti-theists-act-like-Young-Earth-Creationism-is-the-only-valid-interpretation-of-Genesis/answer/Hans-Georg-Lundahl


Context link:
Where Young Earth Creationism Gets the Bible Wrong
GodAndScienceOrg | 9.XII.2013
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2InalJfkEo


Answer requested
by Lyra Heartfold

Hans-Georg Lundahl
Studied religions as curious parallels and contrasts to Xtian faith since 9, 10?
Answered Feb 19, 2018
I cannot answer for anti-theists, but I can say that if they do, they have good reasons.

  • It is prima facie good exegesis;
  • It is historically the not just predominant but universal exegesis, the other one being a very recent accomodation to what Young Earth Creationists do not recognise as real discoveries.


Updates with possible comments on video will, if so, be posted here./HGL